――Do you feel that your laboratory proposes to policy makers from an academic standpoint?
Mr. Hasegawa:
I feel like I'm between policy and research.It's like connecting the natural sciences and physical research of climate change with policy.
Mr. Fujimori:
Policy research includes how much carbon tax is needed and how much energy efficiency needs to be improved.I wonder if Mr. Oshiro's research is close to policy.
Mr. Oshiro:
In my case, I have been conducting research on the evaluation of Japan's reduction targets and how the energy system needs to be changed according to the target level.
Mr. Fujimori:
Japan's goal of "2030% reduction from 2013 by 26" under the Paris Agreement is far from the 2 ° C target, and the long-term target is to reduce by 2050% by 80, but it is still +1.5. It's not enough to stabilize at XNUMX ℃.
――In Japan, I feel that industry is influencing policy.Greenhouse gases also emit a lot from industrial fields such as the steel industry, so I think it is necessary to balance that area.
Mr. Fujimori:
Compared to Europe, it clearly has a stronger ability to protect vested interests.The United States may be stronger, so it's not a phenomenon peculiar to Japan, but it's one of the reasons why Japanese society hasn't changed.We model by assuming future steel production, but if the steel production decreases, the steel industry will argue.There is also a conflict between the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry and the Ministry of the Environment.
Mr. Oshiro:
It is easy to think that Japanese people are serious and that their goals are not what they aim for as goals, but that they must be achieved.Therefore, the industry will not aim for the target value, but will consider it as an inevitable target, so there will be a counterargument.
Mr. Fujimori:
I wonder if Japanese people have a strong risk aversion, or have the characteristic of being afraid of change or looking around.I feel like living abroad and interacting with people from overseas.If you are aware of it, you can handle it, but if you do not notice such a nature without knowing the outside world with an inward perspective, you will get stuck in an internal trap.After all, I think that if we become more active in touching people and things overseas and seeing ourselves objectively, the possibilities for improving the current Japanese society will expand.
――In any case, climate change has to do well.
Mr. Fujimori:
Well, I will guide you well (laughs).But I still want to be in a neutral position as a scientist, maybe because I'm young.Not close to industry, not extreme environmental activists.I think it's necessary to correct the weird claims, and I'd like to be open-minded and always skeptical of what I'm doing.A story like this one can also be a source of opposition to climate change control, depending on the interpretation, so the question of whether the presentation is appropriate is always present.However, I don't want to lie down strangely, and I think it's better to clarify the fact that bad things can happen in climate change measures.
――The information we are touching is often biased, so I think the general public, especially the general public, wants to know the facts that are not affected by it.
Mr. Fujimori:
The situation is different now, and the role of scientists is changing.I am also trying to find out how to disseminate information and research results. I feel that sending on Facebook is not very effective ...I wonder what to do.
Mr. Hasegawa:
In that sense, I think this interview is a good opportunity.
――By the way, when did you become interested in climate change?
Mr. Fujimori:
Since I was a high school student, I wanted to study the environment.When I entered the university and entered the climate change laboratory, I realized that climate change involves not only the environment but also various social activities such as the economy, and I wanted to see such things comprehensively.After studying further, I felt that I needed to know more about whether climate change was really a problem to be solved and how serious it was, so I proceeded to the doctoral course.Well, when I noticed it, I was using it a lot (laughs).However, the question of whether climate change should really be solved, and of course I think it should be solved, but how much priority should be given, we are still conducting research with a question mark. I am. A well-known statistician named Lomborg compared how much to invest in goals like the MDGs in the 2000s, but the conclusion is AIDS in the first place.And hunger, poverty, malaria.The last is climate change.No project is so inefficient, it's just not cost-effective.Will we invest heavily for the people of Bangladesh (Ganges Delta), who should be as rich as the developed countries of today, or rather, just a little bit of the lives of those who are suffering right now. It raises the question of how much money can save.The pies we have are limited and must be used efficiently.It's probably piercing the essence.In that sense, this paper attacked the issue of socially important hunger and was personally interesting.However, research on the effects of climate change has progressed tremendously in the last few years, and there are a lot of studies showing that the effects will be greater than I had expected.If left unchecked, there would be a loss of 20-30% of GDP.In that case, global warming countermeasures may no longer be a cost-effective investment.
Mr. Hasegawa:
I have been interested in environmental issues since I was a high school student, and the hot topic at that time was global warming.And when I entered the Matsuoka laboratory, the predecessor of the current Fujimori Lab, it felt like it was flowing as it was with warming (laughs).
Mr. Oshiro:
I'm from an architecture department.When choosing a laboratory, there was a laboratory that simulated how energy efficiency affects the whole of Japan, and I entered there.After completing my master's degree, I joined the environmental department of a private consulting company and was engaged in research commissioned by government agencies and research institutes.However, the Great East Japan Earthquake struck in the year I joined the company, and after that I was involved in a shift in energy policy for Japan as a whole.However, when the policy debate had settled down to some extent and I was wondering what to do, I felt like I had settled in this laboratory.As a result, I settled down in a place that suits me.
Mr. Fujimori:
But I am wondering how much the environment will be as an academic research in the future.We know a lot about climate change, and there is a lot of feeling that the rest is just moving the world.Then it's not an academic study, but an actual activity.
In the future, I would like to step into eliminating the poverty of SDGs1.I think that if I study there a little more and understand various things, I will somehow find the solution to the questions that remain in me.
――Please give a message to young people who are aiming to become researchers.
Mr. Hasegawa:
Work hard anyway.Looking back on myself, there is something that I can definitely gain even if I make a mistake.However, even if it works, I can't get it right.I am now only made up of what I have gained from doing my best in the past.I want to tell you to work hard now to make yourself in the future.
Mr. Fujimori:
In the current situation of the academic industry in Japan, I think it is difficult to draw a rosy future.However, if you accept it, I want you to believe in your own path, do what you can to death, and try various things.And if possible, I would like you to go abroad, gain various experiences, and finally come back to liven up Japan.
Mr. Oshiro:
I was in the private sector for exactly nine years, but because I was some distance from the academics, my research colleagues were very limited.However, research is not something that you should do on your own.I think it is important to create friends, connections, and networks.
-- Finally,Nature Sustainability I would like to ask about.Have you been thinking about posting to this journal from the beginning?
Mr. Fujimori:
Yes,Nature Sustainability I aimed at.I knew it before the first issue.
Mr. Hasegawa:
The theme matched and I thought it was a good opportunity.
-- Last yearNature Climate Change The paper was published in, but I think you may think about which one to publish in the future.
Mr. Hasegawa:
Nature Climate Change Is more like climate change?
Mr. Fujimori:
Nature Sustainability When posting to, I still feel that it needs to be related to the SDGs.The papers that fit well there areNature Sustainability I would like to post to.
――Do you think it is an expected journal?
Mr. Fujimori:
I have high expectations.I want to post more and more from now on.I think it is an important theme for humankind, and I think it is very interesting because related knowledge in various fields may be discussed interdisciplinarily in this journal.
-- Thank you very much.
References
- Fujimori, S. et al. A multi-model assessment of food security implications of climate change mitigation. Nature Sustainability, 2, 386-396 (2019).
- Hasegawa, T. et al. Risk of increased food insecurity under stringent global climate change mitigation policy. Nature Climate Change, 8, 699-703 (2018).
- Hasegawa, T. et al. Consequence of Climate Mitigation on the Risk of Hunger. Environmental Science & Technology, 49, 7245-7253 (2015).
- Hasegawa, T. et al. Tackling food inequality consumption to fight hunger without pressing the environment. Nature Sustainability, doi: 10.1038 / s41893-019-0371-6, (accepted).
- Mach, J. K, et al. Climate as a risk factor for armed conflict. Nature 571, 193-197 (2019).
After the interview
Even we, the general public, who are not experts, recognize that global warming is a problem that must be dealt with.However, I was reminded that it is not good to just think about controlling the temperature.If you think about it for a moment and take measures, you can reduce the risk of global warming and hunger.Fujimori-sensei, Hasegawa-sensei, and Oshiro-sensei are all in their thirties.He is motivated and is doing various simulations of climate change from different angles.I hope that future research results will contribute to achieving the maximum number of happiness while controlling global warming.
The listener is Akemi Tanaka (science writer).
Published paper
Multi-model assessment of the impact of climate change mitigation measures on food security
A multi-model assessment of food security implications of climate change mitigation
Nature Sustainability 2 386-396 two10.1038 / s41893-019-0286-2 | Published online 13 May 2019
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